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Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL

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Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL Empty Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL

Post  Slyphidine Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:37 pm

First of all, this affects NONE of us. Hopefully this will cut off all questions starting with "so in my next draft, I can..."

Here's the best explanation I've seen of it so far:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tolarian-academy-%E2%80%93-some-winter-break-this-is/

Basically, a new rule has been added for mandatory triggers in high end events. Certain ones become "may" triggers, limited to the ones below:

Traditionally, some abilities include the word ‘may’ as part of their text, indicating that their effect is optional. At Competitive and Professional REL, some additional triggered abilities and enters-the-battlefield replacement effects are considered optional. The player is not required to follow the instruction when the ability resolves, and if the ability is forgotten it will not retroactively be applied. An optional ability does one or more of the following things, and nothing else:
• Gains you life or causes an opponent to lose life.
• Puts cards from your library, graveyard, or exile zones into your hand or onto the battlefield. This includes drawing cards.
• Causes opponents to put objects from their hand or the battlefield into the library, graveyard or exile.
• Puts a permanent into play under your control or gives you control of a permanent.
• Puts +x/+x counters, or counters linked to a beneficial effect, on a permanent you control.
• Gives +x/+x or a beneficial ability to a target creature you control.
• Exiles, damages, destroys, taps, or gives -x/-x to an opponent’s target permanent. If the ability could target your own permanents, it is not optional unless that ability could target an opponent.
• Gives you additional turns or phases.
• Counters a spell or conditionally counters a spell, but only when cast by an opponent.
Abilities that trigger at the same point in each players turn and do something to “that player” (e.g. Howling Mine) are never optional.
This list is comprehensive. An ability that does not fit all of the criteria above is not optional, even if it is to the benefit of the player controlling the ability. Similarly, an optional ability is always optional, even if it would be to the detriment of the player for it to happen.

A good questions is, do we want to start doing this in our casual play? Mostly, if you forget to do a mandatory trigger, do we want to allow backing up and letting you remember it, or is it skipped once the moment is passed? It would prevent the occasional "oh, I forgot to be gaining life from my Soul Warden. 12 creatures came into play? I guess I have 12 more life than I thought." It now just becomes, "fuck!"
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Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL Empty Re: Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL

Post  Uniclonus Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:31 pm

I'd read about this the other day, still not sure what to make of it. On one hand, it makes sense: makes you really need to pay attention and remember your triggers. On the other hand, I hate it: It causes some cards to work differently depending on where/when you're playing them.

As for whether we should adopt it... I don't know. I think we need a more thorough, official explanation on the change (since I don't think the DCI has put out one yet). Plus we need to see if the change holds up for the long term, because I wouldn't be surprised if they reverse it in a few months.
One problem I have with the change is it actually makes Transcendence a potentially good/useful card. That just seems wrong to me.

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Post  intrinsic Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:09 pm

this is where i really feel like a simpleton when it comes to mtg rules. I read over this twice and i just dont get it.

If its a may ability and you forget, oh well, you are shit out of luck.
If its a must ability and you or all players involved forget and then try to go back and fix it, it can cause serious headaches. If this rule is addressing that headache, then good.

If not, then i dont get it.

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Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL Empty Re: Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL

Post  Slyphidine Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:19 pm

Yes, this addresses that.

For example let's say I have a Soul Warden in play, and you cast a creature, and attack. Afterwards, I remember that Soul Warden's ability should have triggered and I should have gained one life (Soul Warden's ability is not a "may" ability).

Under old rules:
I retroactively gain one life, a judge is called, and we both get warnings for failure to maintain game state.

Under new rules:
The Soul Warden's non-may ability is considered optional (in Professional and Competitive REL anyway), so I am assumed to have passed on using the ability, and I don't gain the one life. No judges are called.

Which seems like it just punishes sloppy play. But...

Let's say the creature you cast was a Kavu Predator. I can strategically choose not to gain life because it will put a +1/+1 counter on your Kavu. After all, it's an optional ability now. This opens up a whole bunch of new strategic plays at the professional level.

Brandon was referring to the now "brokenness" of Transcendence, because you can just conveniently choose to ignore the now optional trigger of gaining 2 life for each one life lost. Your life total will never go above 20, because you'll never choose to have that trigger happen.
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Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL Empty Re: Change to "mandatory" triggers in Competitive and Professional REL

Post  Uniclonus Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:19 am

Moot point now apparantly. It seems they pulled the latest update of the IPG (where this fun stuff was changed), the old version is still in effect, and when they rerelease the new update it'll be different than what it was. Including apparantly the 'cards working differently at different RELs' part being gone.

Check the first post here for a bit of an update: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378808

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