Reserved list question

i put this in the "New Cards and Sets" thread in the hopes that allows for very old cards to be new once again.

i asked this of Mark Rosewater on his tumblr. i'll keep you posted if it is answered.

Every time I look at the reserved list, I die a little on the inside. What do you think will the game be like in 10 years with this misguided practice still in place? I can almost assure you that Vintage and Legacy will die off in less time than that, as will the original proponents of the policy.

Also, why do Magic Online players get the luxury of playing with reserved cards (i.e. from the Masters Editions), but their predecessors, paper Magic players, have to sell their first-born to use them?

what do you guys think of the reserved list?

I don't think about it too much. While I'm disappointed that certain cards will never get the foil treatment (and thus, the cube is permanently unfoilable), I have access to most of the cards I'll ever need.

I dislike it. It's not as bad as YuGiOh where if a card ever costs more then 50$ they reprint the shit out of it and make it illegal in every format (imagine that for Magic ... Moxes and Duals, Moxes and Duals everywhere!), but I am still upset that some of these cards will never have a newer look.

I'd love to see some of these cards re-released as promos, rewards, or Dual Deck / FTV type products. I'm not a collector or anything, but having these older cards that won't see print again as a foil would be a nice addition to my collection. I mean, I have gone back and bought every dual deck I could get my hands on and I end up only using a few of the card; but I still think it is worth the money for me.

I suggest Wiz doing what the WoW TCG did; release a set that is the best of the best in Magic. All foil and a large portion have new art. 10$ for a pack of 15 random cards spanning the history of Magic. You'll have the chance to pull the duals, moxes, and Black Lotus, but you will also be pulling other iconic cards like Rancor, Sakura Tribe Elder, Diving Top, Isochron Scepter, pain lands, fetch lands, etc. etc.

Wiz will be happy because of all the money and the players (especially me) will be happy to be getting some cool new versions of old cards with the chance of getting the iconic Black Lotus.

~Zuty

Zuty, its a nice thought, but here is what would really happen if they printed those packs...

Very VERY few of those boxes would hit the retail market.

Distributors would hold them, sit on them, or most would break them and sell the singles for WAY more than the price they would fetch for the sealed pack.

intrinsic wrote:Zuty, its a nice thought, but here is what would really happen if they printed those packs...

Very VERY few of those boxes would hit the retail market.

Distributors would hold them, sit on them, or most would break them and sell the singles for WAY more than the price they would fetch for the sealed pack.

A little douchey for distributors to do, but I do see your point. I'd like to see something like this happen or just anyway these cards will see print again, because I am not going to fork over thousands of dollars on a few pieces of paper that I will just add to my big deck. I'm far from a competitive player and I am not a huge collector, but when I do see alternate art work or foil versions of older cards, I try my best to obtain them. If ever do get one of the original duals, one of the moxes, or Black Lotus I will mostly likely slip it into big deck and any further copies I come across I will trade/sell (leaning more towards selling). So reprinting these cards (not just the moxes/duals/BL, I mean the entire list) would be an easy way for me to get cool foils/alternate arts and then trade/sell so I can get stuff I need. I only need one copy of a rare/mythic card, after that I usually try and get rid of them since my focus is Peasant and Paupers.

Anyway, it would be cool just to see these cards reprinted. I know proxies aren't allowed in big deck, so I can't make proxies for the original duals which sucks since (I at least think) without them I am at a HUGE disadvantage. So either way, if they reprint cards on the reserved list as a promotional thing, reward, or even as a series of cards like I suggested I will try my best to get them, but I won't go out of my way and pay an arm and a leg for them. If they don't reprint them, same thing. Not going to throw away hundreds of dollars for a piece of cardboard. Hell, I don't even drop ten dollars on single cards.

~Zuty

Neither Brandon, nor John O, nor James (I think) has original duals in their big decks, and they do fine. And honestly, I don't feel the need or interest to put Black Lotus or the Moxen in my big deck. It's not like those cards are exactly dripping with flavor or even fun to play, especially in multiplayer. I mean, seriously, if we all decided that we could have the 5 moxen and lotus in our big decks as proxies, does that seem to imply that the games would be more exciting? If fast mana were a big part of big deck, we'd all have mox diamond, chrome mox, lotus petal, lotus bloom, dark ritual, mana vault, etc. in there. I personally have none in mine.

Time Walk, that's another story. But I'm not crushed to not be able to play with that incredibly broken card.

i owned some decent type I stuff ages ago, then sold off my collection and quit the game for 10 years. Even when i came back during Morningtide or Llorwyn (whichever was first), dual lands were a manageable $20 each save for the UB one.

Its only in the last few years they have shot up as the international interest in MTG has forced everything of value in extended and vintage through the fucking roof. (See THIS article and the link inside for an interesting perspective on this matter)

Dan is right though, our playgroup, which is the only playgroup i know that plays big deck, doesnt really run that many duals or power of any kind in our decks. In fact, i doubt i have/had any card worth more than $20 in my big deck (i dismantled it recently, possibly never to be rebuilt).

As Steve suggested, the extended and beyond format is doomed as prices will continue to arise and more and more people will continue to abandon it due to not being able to afford/acquire the cards.

Slyphidine wrote:Neither Brandon, nor John O, nor James (I think) has original duals in their big decks, and they do fine.

yes, but if they had easier access to them, would they not immediately put them in? of course they would. would they replace Coastal Tower, etc.? YES! would they smooth out their mana bases somewhat? yes that too! i think these duals are simple and elegant, and should be a greater part of the game as a whole.

Slyphidine wrote:I mean, seriously, if we all decided that we could have the 5 moxen and lotus in our big decks as proxies, does that seem to imply that the games would be more exciting?

i am not interested in Moxen and Lotus. at all. they can all burn. what i would like to see (in addition to the duals) are the fun and sometimes simple cards needlessly wasted for all eternity. there is no reason to sustain this policy, other than keeping a misguided "promise" to an overrepresented, obnoxious minority.

intrinsic wrote:Its only in the last few years they have shot up as the international interest in MTG has forced everything of value in extended and vintage through the fucking roof. (See THIS article and the link inside for an interesting perspective on this matter)

As Steve suggested, the extended and beyond format is doomed as prices will continue to arise and more and more people will continue to abandon it due to not being able to afford/acquire the cards.

Q F T

that second paragraph is why i asked Maro to project so far into the future. it will certainly dry up in 10 years. and Maro himself asserted that Magic would still be around in 10 years.

Wait, so NOW you're advocating Tundra over Coastal Tower?

It is true that the original duals are "fun," in that they enable so many other cards in your deck. I will say that the handicap for not owning them is not severe; my deck is not significantly better because all 10 are in. But that's not really the point. The point is, once again, they're fun.

I don't know what the solution would be. I don't think flooding the market, even with a limited edition reprint of packs with duals or FTV-Duals is good for the game. But it would be nice to have access to those cards.

The duals in my primary Big Deck can make it easier to cast some of my splashier, multi-colored spells earlier, especially since I can fetch them, but I don't think that puts my deck in a massively superior position. There are plenty of ways to fix one's mana without the original duals (fetches, shock/pain lands, tri-lands, panoramas, etc) that I use in my deck as well. Besides, Big Deck isn't exactly a blistering fast format (despite John W's efforts), so getting early fixing via Fetch > Dual isn't as advantageous as other constructed formats.

Basically, the original duals are really helpful but I don't think my deck would be significantly worse without them.

The reason I would want the duals is so I can search for them with land cycling and all that good stuff. I don't mind getting shock lands, but that's still WAY to expensive for me. I'd love to see more duals with land types.

~Zuty