James's No Rare Cube

white considerations:

affa guard hound
dawnglare invoker
emerge unscathed
hyena umbra
kabira vindicator
knight of cliffhaven
lone emissary
oust
soul's attendant
soulbound guardians
survival cache
wall of omens (its in already)

Abuna Acolyte
glimmerpoint stag
glint hawk
myrsmith
razor hippogriff
revoke existence

accorder paladin
gore vassal

honorary mention goes to evolving wilds for making the cube

Eldrazi or not to Eldrazi?

Artisan of Kozilek
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Ulamog's Crusher

Ok... that's a lot of posts...



I can't look at this tonight, but I'll take a look tomorrow and make some comments.

A couple of thoughts.

Artifacts:

Prophetic Prism is not acceleration, just fixing that cantrips. I prefer Sphere of the Suns, though neither are auto-includes.

Memnite? Really? He rarely makes the deck in regular drafts.

Also not a fan of:
Darksteel Myr
Darksteel Sentinel
glint hawk idol
infiltration lens
rust tick
wall of tanglecord for 1 green mana you stop nearly everything in my cube.
vulshok replica
Moriok Replica
Sylvok Replica
Auriok Replica
Neurok Replica
Bladed Pinions
myr sire
piston sledge
Signal Pest

I particularly like:
Palladium Myr
Tumble Magnet
Mortarpod (such a beating!)

Mana Myrs are pretty good too.

Black:

If you're building for multiplayer, take out the discard. Otherwise, I'd leave it in. Hymn in particular can be back-breaking in duels.

I like:
Go for the Scroat (lol)
Phyrexian Rager
Skinrender

Maybe:
Grasp of Darkness
Necrogen Scudder

Don't like the rest. Painsmith only works with a critical mass of artifacts and works better with infect. Otherwise he's a shitty bear.

Blue:

I like:
Preordain(!)
Enclave Cryptologist
Sea Gate Oracle
Vedalken Anatomist

Maybe:
Deprive
Guard Gomazoa (especially in multiplayer)
Drake Umbra

I suppose Stoic Rebuttal over Cancel, though I like the simplicity of Cancel. Maybe only run Stoic Rebuttal if you get a Portuguese version.

Green:

I like:
Pelakka Wurm
Lead the Stampede (over Gift)
Viridian Emissary
Joraga Treespeaker (yes, automatic)

Maybe:
Beastbreaker of Bala Ged

Red:

I like:
Forked Bolt
Arc Trail
Staggershock
Traitorous Instinct
Oxidda Scrapmelter
Goblin Wardriver

Of your burn, I'm not such a fan of Puncture Blast and Flame Jab, but they're still pretty good. I like Staggershock over Flame Jab.

White:

I like:
Oust
Wall of Omens
Glimmerpoint Stag
Accordion Paladin

Maybe:
Dawnglare Evoker
Survival Cache
Gore Vassal

As for Eldrazi, if you have enough ramp, maybe Ulamog's Crusher and Artisan of Kozilek. Otherwise don't do it; they won't be played.

In short, I don't think the addition of that many more artifacts make the "artifacts count" guys playable. You're still well below what is necessary to make them work in Mirrodin draft.

Look forward to playing it again soon, though!

intrinsic wrote:Now, on to black...

I have decided to remove the black hand manipulation cards. They are such a part of the black color wheel but they rarely seem to be played and are nearly worthless in multiplayer.

So out goes:
Agonizing Memories
Duress
Hymn to Tourach
Stupor

i disagree with this move. Memories and Stupor, fine, they can go. even Duress! but there is NOTHING like a second turn Hymn. NOTHING.

i am a huge fan of Infiltration Lens!

it's a repeatable Browbeat! it's awesome!

Dan, thank you for the effort. Since you were a detractor of so many of the artifact suggestions i made, perhaps you can peruse my existing list of cube artifacts and maybe notice a few from older sets i could add to up the count over those you dislike?

Wish i would have kept a list of the stuff i cut last from each color as a back up for second thoughts.

I have to consider if i will just straight add 4 or 5 to each color shard or have to remove a few cards to make room. Thoughts on that?

Steve, thanks but can you take 5 more minutes and add more input?
This is kinda "your" cube too since you guys are the only other ones to play it besides me.

Hoping to hear some feedback from Jim and both Johns also...

intrinsic wrote:Dan, thank you for the effort. Since you were a detractor of so many of the artifact suggestions i made, perhaps you can peruse my existing list of cube artifacts and maybe notice a few from older sets i could add to up the count over those you dislike?

Oh great, I do my homework and get punished...

I'll get to it later... er, my dog ate it.

Aside from what Dan has displayed a like for, I've got some thoughts.
For Limited in general, I'm a bit of a fan of the Invokers and to a slightly lesser extent the Levelers. You basically never hate drawing them late game.

I like some of the Replicas. If you can stand not having the full cycle in, I'd say think about Moriok, Sylvok, and maybe Neurok.
I'd say yes to Infiltration Lens. Cheap equipment like that is almost always good to have.
Contagion Clasp really takes a hit with the lack of Infect and Planeswalkers. I'm not sure Levelers alone would be enough to make it worthwhile. You'd really have to see how many cards in the cube utilize counters and figure out if there's enough to make it worthwhile. I'm willing to bet it isn't.
I'm pro Perilous Myr, for no good reason I can articulate right now.

I'm liking Skeletal Wurm and Escaped Null for the reasons you state.
Virulent Swipe, depends on if you want Black to have a non-removal based combat trick.

James, are you set on upping the artifact count so you can add in many of the "artifact matters" Mirrodin cards? You might want to see if the artifacts you're trying to add are actually some of the best commons and uncommons every printed, or if they're just new cards you want to play with. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's potentially a different goal than having the best commons and uncommons of the game.

i just felt like there were a lot of solid artifacts printed in the recent sets and it was time to up the count to have them more of a regular thing in the cube. At 40, you dont see them much and they are almost all just mana fixers/ram or equipment. I want more artifact creatures and better symmetry within the cube and their interaction as a whole.

based on your feedback and my second thoughts, this is how i see it happening for the artifacts...


prophetic prism
mana myrs? IN
contagion clasp (considering adding more levelers, but im NOT adding infect. not sure if this card makes sense in the cube with no PW's or infect)
darksteel myr
darksteel axe
darksteel sentinel
glint hawk idol
golem artisan -IN
horizon spellbomb IN (im ok with not having symetry in the cube regarding including all or none of a certain type of card that has a one of in each color.) this and the origin spellbomb seem like the only 2 high considerations
origin spellbombIN
infiltration lensIN
memnite -definite ill agree with you for now Dan
palladium myr -IN
perilous myr on the bubble
rust tick
tumble magnetIN
wall of tanglecord for 1 green mana you stop nearly everything in my cube.
vulshok replica
Moriok ReplicaIN
Sylvok ReplicaIN
Auriok Replica
Neurok ReplicaIN
Bladed Pinions
flayer husk on the bubble
mortarpodIN
myr sire
pierce striderIN i like his potential for abusing ETB effects
piston sledge
sphere of the suns -IN
viridian claw
Signal Pest

Thats 9, possible 10 artifact dudes entering the cube.

final thoughts on perilous myr and flayer husk?
I think they are pretty decent. Drawing either early you just swing away. Drawing either later in the game is fine too. Husk is not without use in making your dudes bigger and Perilous Myr is a dangerous option in crowded combat situations for his bitchslap on the way to the graveyard, or if your opponent has an annoying non combat creature ability happening.

Now i need all these in foil... Ha.
I dont even own, somehow, a regular infiltration lens or the black mana myr.

I like Perilous Myr. Flayer Husk is passable.

What about Pilgrim's Eye? He's nice, especially with a Crystal Shard.

so i don't have Aether Vial in my cube. i keep seeing it in other "pauper" cubes.

I've never once played with it.

Please discuss why it should or should not be in common/uncommon cube.

intrinsic wrote:so i don't have Aether Vial in my cube. i keep seeing it in other "pauper" cubes.

I've never once played with it.

Please discuss why it should or should not be in common/uncommon cube.

I have a few thoughts:

1. It essentially doubles your mana. So on turn 2, you can cast a 2 drop and a 1 drop. On turn 3 you can cast a 3 drop and a 2 drop. And so on.
2. It makes the creatures you "cast" uncounterable.
3. It gives every creature you use it with flash, utterly fucking up combat.

In conclusion, because your common/uncommon cube has so many creature strategies, it is a brutal way to out-tempo your opponent while causing them to hesitate to attack. It works quite well in cube, just as it works quite well in Legacy.

Considerations for my cube from the new set...

I like the exarchs as a group.
Porcelain legionnaire and beast within are definites, the rest are up for discussion. Some could just go in on their own, others may replace cards.
It seems like the "free cards" should definitely be in, namely gut shot and mutagenic growth.
The 2 best shrines deserve consideration.

suture priest
porcelain legionnaire
inquisitor exarch

deceiver exarch
impaler shrike
numbing dose

dismember
blind zealot
entombed exarch
vault skirge

priest of urabrask
gut shot
tormentor exarch

beast within
brutalizer exarch
mutagenic growth

blinding souleater
alloy myr
isolation cell
shrine of burning rage
shrine of loyal legions
trespassing souleater

The commons and uncommons I have included from NPH:

Beast Within (though I'm still not convinced on that one)
Dismember
Porcelain Legionnaire

Of the others in your list, I like the following:

Mutagenic Growth (though I don't love this one either)
Shrine of Burning Rage
The exarch cycle could be good. The bodies are a bit small, but the effects are pretty nice. Either way, they're interesting, especially with a crystal shard.
Suture Priest might be nice for pro/anti swarm strategies.

The others don't seem strong enough. Gut Shot just has too little impact. I'd rather splash red for better red removal.

I like Apostle's Blessing, though it could be just me and my limited experience with it. 1 mana to blank a removal or have a combat trick is pretty nice.

If you're going to play Alloy Myr, why not just Scuttlemutt, since he's mostly better. Do "myr matter" in your cube? I forget if you added in lots of myr and the galvanizer or something.

I'd rather play Phantom Warrior than Trespassing Souleater. A grey ogre that is conditionally unblockable doesn't seem good enough, even if any color can make him unblockable. He would have to have lifegaining equipment/enchantments on him to make it worth the cost when played off-color.

Beast Within is a must in your cube. It could possibly be a maybe in mine with smaller threats.


So is Flame Jab is better than Gut Shot because Flame Jab is currently still in my cube.

If i have Priest of Gix in my cube i figured it stood to reason i would put the Priest of Urabrak in.

Scuttlemutt is in my cube already, and a 2/2 body for colorless cmc 3 that makes any mana seems good enough to have 2 in? Maybe im wrong.
Myrs dont matter in my cube.

I considered Apostle's Blessing, perhaps it does deserve a spot.

Should Mutagenic Growth possibly replace Giant Growth?

An early Suture Priest can be 3, 5, even 7 life swing. Thats pretty solid.

You make a decent point on the Trespassing Souleater but what about Blinding?

A few points/questions.

I have been looking over other cubes, checking to see what may be missing, or what i can do differently.
I am going to sub divide the colors into creatures and spells, and further divide them into casting cost. Once i'm done i'd like to discuss the importance of curve and what could be done to make mine better -if need be.

I began with black.
Any thoughts so far? Does black, on its own, seem to curve ok?

Curve looks decent, though Okiba Gang Shinobi belongs at 4, not 5. It's harder to do with uncommons, but as the curve gets higher, the power level should be noticeably higher. I feel like cards like Priest of Gix and Order of Yawgmoth are weaker than some of the lower cmc guys (Hypnotic Specter, for instance, is significantly better than Order of Yawgmoth. Skinrender, on the other hand is stronger than Hyppie IMO). I feel like some of the cards haven't yet accounted for power creep.

In terms of the curve itself, it centers around 2 and 3, which is what you want. I'm surprised there aren't more 1-drop creatures, but I can't come up with any off-hand (Molting Harpy?).

Slyphidine wrote:Curve looks decent, though Okiba Gang Shinobi belongs at 4, not 5. It's harder to do with uncommons, but as the curve gets higher, the power level should be noticeably higher. I feel like cards like Priest of Gix and Order of Yawgmoth are weaker than some of the lower cmc guys (Hypnotic Specter, for instance, is significantly better than Order of Yawgmoth. Skinrender, on the other hand is stronger than Hyppie IMO). I feel like some of the cards haven't yet accounted for power creep.

In terms of the curve itself, it centers around 2 and 3, which is what you want. I'm surprised there aren't more 1-drop creatures, but I can't come up with any off-hand (Molting Harpy?).

cool, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I wish i could say i've played the cube enough to see where the Priest or the Order get picked to decide if they are replaceable. Sadly thats not the case. I've made too many changes to it already without having made them based on play, i think ill just wait a bit longer to decide on their fate.

Feel free to ignore this post by me

Ive updated the first post in this thread with the numbers of creatures/non creatures in every color.

A few are noticeably lopsided (blue heavy spells, green heavy creatures, artifacts heavy in noncreatures), and the rest are nearly even.
The question is, should black, red, white and gold be balanced?

Thoughts on traditional strengths and weaknesses of those color pies in regards to spell type?

(EDITED TO ADD CUTS)
This is what we decided to cut from the cube


Viceling
Ticking Gnomes
Viridian Longbow

Baloth Cage Trap (a contesed cut)
Recollect
Land Grant
Spidersilk Armor
Naturalize
Lead the Stampede (a contested cut)
Changeling Titan
Topan Ascetic (slightly contested)
Quirion Elves
Nettletooth Djinn

To Arms!
Abolish
Marshalling Cry (contested)
Accorder Paladin
Knight of the Skyward Eye
Order of the White Shield

Death Pulse
Withered Wretch
Priest of Gix
Order of Yawgmoth
Quest for the Gravelord
Grasp of Darkness
Hideous End (contested)
and Diabolic Tutor goes since ive decided to finally add Demonic Tutor

Countersquall

Carniverous Death-Parrot (contested)
Neurok Invisimancer
Broken Ambitions
Cancel
Paralyzing Grasp
Ophidian (Highly contested, but Scroll Thief just F's him in the A sadly)

Chartooth Cougar
Puncture Blast
Fling (contested)
Conflagrate

Thats 38 cuts total...


And these are the new additions to the cube!

WHITE
momentary blink
stonehorn dignitary
dawnglare invoker
mana tithe
flickerwisp
elite vanguard
goldmeadow harrier
knight of the holy nimbus
kor hookmaster
battle screech
azorious herald
loam lion
descendant of kiyomaro
leonin relic warder
land tax

BLUE
aether adept
scroll thief
azure mage
compulsive research
narcolepsy
merfolk looter
air servant
enclave cryptologist
miscalculation
repeal
fog bank
spellstutter sprite
mystical teachings

BLACK
vampire outcasts
blind zealot
cadaver imp
demonic tutor
Phyrexian Reclamation
oubliette!
vampire lacerator
reanimate
doom blade
small pox
onyx mage
Hypnotic Specter

GREEN
mire boa
leatherback baloth
uktabi orangutang
indrik stomphowler
jade mage
beast attack
rampant growth
wild dogs
nature's spiral
acidic slime

RED
m12 volcanic dragon
flame slash
jackal pup
stormblood berserker
act of aggression
circle of flame

GOLD
seedcradle witch
tattermunge maniac
wild cantor

ARTIFACT
shrine of burning rage
blinding souleater
phyrexian war beast
swiftfoot boots


Thats 64 additions! We failed miserably to keep the cube the same size LOL
(mostly my fault, but alas, it is what it is...)