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Viability of battle cry in MSS

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Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  MidniteEffort on Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:22 am

after falling HARD in 2HG with a WR battle cry deck at the prerelease, i was wondering how good battle cry actually is. i have a feeling that it's only good with a Rally the Forces-supported alpha strike... which is usually something you never want to do. plus most of the criers are expensive, so you'll have less of them on the 'field unless you lucked into a bunch of the uncommon Accorder Paladin and Goblin Wardriver. these things don't trade up though! i'm wondering why, in the battle of the MBS keywords, infect seems to be the clear winner!

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Slyphidine on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:03 pm

It looks like all the uncommon and mythic battle cry dudes are quite playable, while the common ones are pretty weak. It seems like a nice addition to a solid low-curve aggro deck, but no, the ability can't really fill a deck out on its own.

Truly, though, you should be comparing it to Living Weapon, since that's the other MBS mechanic. In terms of those two, it's a little closer.
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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  MidniteEffort on Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:21 pm

Slyphidine wrote:Truly, though, you should be comparing it to Living Weapon, since that's the other MBS mechanic. In terms of those two, it's a little closer.

i meant in comparison to the infect archetype.

living weapon seems like a good support mechanic in this new limited. although John W couldn't pull through with it, he was sacking Husk germs to Vivisection to great effect (in addition to Oculus and Myr Sire).

i dunno, i'm liking blue so far. seems a slower environment.

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  redxxii on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Don't you dare take my UB control-deck cards!

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Zuty on Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Battle Cry the way it is does not beat Infect. It DOES help tip the damage scales, but I think that it should have appeared on more cards, especially cheaper CMC cards that can at least stay on the board. Why wasn't there a Wall with Battle Cry in this set!? REALLY? A 2CMC 0/3 Wall with Battle Cry at Common rarity would be at least half decent.

If Battle Cry gave the +1/+0 bonus and First Strike (maybe with a restriction) I could see it going toe-to-toe with Infect while not being to OP.

I would have made it:

Battle Cry (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn. They also gain First Strike until end of turn if four or more creatures are attacking this turn.)

We can only hope that the next set will introduce more of a push for Battle Cry and away from Infect. I really think Infect is running rampant in this format, it's almost almost everything and (while I haven't sat down and played in a SoM/MB draft) it seems like Infect is the big thing to be running.

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Slyphidine on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:11 pm

Zuty wrote:Why wasn't there a Wall with Battle Cry in this set!? REALLY? A 2CMC 0/3 Wall with Battle Cry at Common rarity would be at least half decent.

In a similar vein, how come there are no infect creatures with the text "Prevent all damage this creature would deal?" Why did they leave out the card with metalcraft that can only be cast if you have 2 or fewer artifacts in play? And if I have to wait one more set for a vanilla Planeswalker, I'm going to go crazy!
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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Zuty on Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:15 pm

Slyphidine wrote:
Zuty wrote:Why wasn't there a Wall with Battle Cry in this set!? REALLY? A 2CMC 0/3 Wall with Battle Cry at Common rarity would be at least half decent.

In a similar vein, how come there are no infect creatures with the text "Prevent all damage this creature would deal?" Why did they leave out the card with metalcraft that can only be cast if you have 2 or fewer artifacts in play? And if I have to wait one more set for a vanilla Planeswalker, I'm going to go crazy!

Oh, I know that there are SO MANY CARDS that I wish were just printed already. SoM and MB has a key theme of Poison counters ... BUT NO WAY TO REMOVE THEM YET!!!

At least reprint Leeches or something. Infect is pretty much 'Double Strike' when it hits a player and it takes down creatures like nobodies business. Granted, I haven't played SoM or MB in drafts or anything like that, but Infect does two things that I can see are a bad thing:

1. Double damage with no way to counteract it (I'd much rather deal 10 damage to you with Infect then bother doing anything else, seeing as how once you get a poison counter you can't take it away. You can heal lost life and you can reshuffle your GY into your deck, but you can't deal with Infect outside of bouncing/killing stuff or throwing creatures in the way)

2. Damage no longer removed from stack (-1/-1 counters sitting on a creature is basically still damage floating there, it's like how the WoW TCG works, except the WoW TCG is balanced to deal with damage not being removed after combat)

If the next set in the block doesn't have Leech 2.0 or some way of getting rid of Poison counters ... Infect will find a way to run rampant.

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Slyphidine on Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:23 am

Just spoiled on mtgsalvation:

Succor Stone
5
Creature - Cleric Wall
Battle Cry, Infect, Double Strike, Bushido 0, Defender
Tap: Remove a poison counter from target player.
Whenever ~this~ is tapped, you gain a poison counter.
0/3
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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  MidniteEffort on Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:25 am

redxxii wrote:Don't you dare take my UB control-deck cards!

haaaaa that's the deck i ran last night!

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Zuty on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 pm

Slyphidine wrote:Just spoiled on mtgsalvation:

Succor Stone
5
Creature - Cleric Wall
Battle Cry, Infect, Double Strike, Bushido 0, Defender
Tap: Remove a poison counter from target player.
Whenever ~this~ is tapped, you gain a poison counter.
0/3

DO WANT!

Just saw this one floating around.

Uey, The Jolly
GGG
Creature - Troll
Indestructible.
You win the game for having 10 or more poison counters.
2/3

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  MidniteEffort on Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:10 pm

ok fine i'll be the first to point this out.

Zuty wrote:Why wasn't there a Wall with Battle Cry in this set!? REALLY? A 2CMC 0/3 Wall with Battle Cry at Common rarity would be at least half decent.

it would be amazingly bad, simply because:

  1. Walls have defender and cannot attack.
  2. battle cry triggers upon the creature WITH battle cry attacking.


Battle cry (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.)

not to mention the flavor: walls usually do not have the proper apparatuses to utter any kind of cry, let alone a battle cry.

this thread got really derailed. how many MSS drafts have you played in again?

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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Slyphidine on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:09 pm

My apologies, I was trying to say the same thing in a passive-aggressive way. Clearly that didn't help the situation.

Really, this was an interesting discussion until you (Mike) started putting in ridiculous content without any basis in reality. The infect deck has not dominated any format (including most casual formats I can see). In a vacuum, the ability infect could be considered broken, but if you've played the format you know that infect creatures are typically more expensive and fragile than their non-infect counterparts. The few exceptions are rares and mythic rares which are much less common in draft, and in constructed just don't hack it most times (with the exception of BSC, perhaps).

Maro has already stated that there are no plans to include a way to remove poison counters in the Scars block. One of the reasons is most likely because the deck isn't overpowered. Once again, it has not put up any numbers in any format. I can't imagine that one more block is going to push it over the edge into broken, needing a solution.

Especially because creatures dealing damage as -1/-1 counters has already been done. Wither did not break the format and break combat. Boggart Ram-Gang was played and was great, but nothing else really broke through. Once again, you'd know this if you played the format at all.

I don't understand how your misunderstanding happened with the defender with battle cry since you quoted an amended version of what the ability does later in your post. It is becoming annoying proofreading your interpretations of new cards.

If you don't know anything about the format or the cards, stop commenting. It comes across as noise and is the reason why several people who used to comment frequently have stopped.
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Re: Viability of battle cry in MSS

Post  Zuty on Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:27 pm

MidniteEffort wrote:
it would be amazingly bad, simply because:

  1. Walls have defender and cannot attack.
  2. battle cry triggers upon the creature WITH battle cry attacking.


Battle cry (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.)

not to mention the flavor: walls usually do not have the proper apparatuses to utter any kind of cry, let alone a battle cry.

How did I miss that ... My bad, okay I see now why they have Signal Pest instead of a cheap wall to drop.

how many MSS drafts have you played in again?

MSS? Last time I drafted ... Was probably RoE with you guys which was ages ago ...

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