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watching a trainwreck...

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watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:05 pm



you gotta watch this dingus draft. it's terrible.

SPOILER for after you turn it off in disgust after the second pick.

Spoiler:

"Jade Mage is an average card"
"i don't like starting in green unless it's a really sweet card"
what is sweeter than Jade Mage?! especially looking at the rest of the pack? that Swarm thing goes really late, all the time. you aren't sending great signals either.

... then he got GIFTED AN OVERRUN and made another dink decision. bet he was kicking himself in the ass silently while he talked up his faulty picks.

as you can well imagine, this guy went 0-1 drop. (i'll spare you the other two videos)

just cuz you're a pro, buddy, doesn't mean you can go passing Jade Mages and Overruns. you think you're high enough in skill to force black every time and win every time? the designers will fight you on that; that's not the way the set was made.

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  Slyphidine on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:21 pm

So funny, you mention it... I was just watching this when I switched it off to come to the forums here.

When I watch LSV draft, I agree with almost all of his picks. With Ochoa, I usually disagree with them fundamentally. That p2p1 Duskhunter Bat @6:30 really rubbed me the wrong way (over a ton of good green stuff).

In fact, I'd discount him completely, but Ochoa consistently places highly at limited events (t8 of Worlds back to back, 2nd place this year). So while this one did seem to be a trainwreck, his different thinking and evaluation is something to analyze. He's doing something right.

Swarm does not go late. Or it shouldn't go late. Remember, in our drafting circle, Merfolk Looter goes late too.
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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:27 pm

Slyphidine wrote:When I watch LSV draft, I agree with almost all of his picks. With Ochoa, I usually disagree with them fundamentally. That p2p1 Duskhunter Bat @6:30 really rubbed me the wrong way (over a ton of good green stuff).

p3p2 took Duskhunter over a Fireball.

maybe he made a conscious decision that making shitty picks makes everyone's head explode and he's the only one left so he wins by default. or maybe he throws the draft off-kilter.

every Overrun he passes makes his possible opponent's deck one Overrun stronger. guy to his left must have loved him and thought he was a noob.

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  Slyphidine on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:47 pm

MidniteEffort wrote:p3p2 took Duskhunter over a Fireball.

Yeah, that was another one I was thinking "well, he is a pro, and I admire his sticking to his guns and making the curve better." Then he lost. I only watched part of the first game, but all of his small fliers got very very quickly outclassed by a slew of better fliers. I'm not ready to call him a terrible drafter (after all, he is a pro), but I'm often confused by his picks. At least Conley says from the getgo "if this were a Pro-Tour, I'd take this, but for today, I want to try something different."
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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 am

Slyphidine wrote:Yeah, that was another one I was thinking "well, he is a pro, and I admire his sticking to his guns and making the curve better." Then he lost. I only watched part of the first game, but all of his small fliers got very very quickly outclassed by a slew of better fliers. I'm not ready to call him a terrible drafter (after all, he is a pro), but I'm often confused by his picks. At least Conley says from the getgo "if this were a Pro-Tour, I'd take this, but for today, I want to try something different."

in the other thread, i just mentioned how i suffer on curve sometimes, and maybe it should have gone here. i agree that in higher levels of play, an experienced player can win more often with a strong curve coupled with a corresponding style of play (sans mistakes) over a glut of bomby bombs. however, sometimes you gotta yank your head out of your ass and read the writing on the wall.

packs really speak to you. (i am not crazy.) i have learned over 10 years of drafting that technical skill is very important, but your own gut feelings are what really win you games, or at the very least, allow you to have a lot of fun. i'd be really happy because i would have first picked a Jade Mage and gotten an Overrun passed to me. i'd be anticipating playing green and would start to be on the lookout for good green complements. and if the draft took me in a different direction, i'd go there. i feel like starting out a draft with a "curvy" but lackluster pick like Devouring Swarm would be setting me up for disaster. but that's me, and i'm not this guy. maybe he really thought he could win, but that first pack was telling me that there was no way, even though it was trying.

i think that's why i like Limited so much: there are so many intangible valuations going on and it takes some finesse to balance them all. except when i sit next to Jim; he throws everything off. Laughing

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  Slyphidine on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:11 am

Compare: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-conley-3-m12-3/

And note his p3p2 and the comment that follows @9:50.
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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:19 am

Slyphidine wrote:Compare: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-conley-3-m12-3/

And note his p3p2 and the comment that follows @9:50.

ha! i'm watching that right now!!!

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  Slyphidine on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:26 am

M1G2: [Regarding Stave Off] "I don't really know what's going on here. Looks like maybe a lion... playing... tetherball?"
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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:22 am

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-conley-3-m12-draft-1/

now here's a guy who's doing it a little bit better...

Vengeful Pharoah + Merfolk Looter

THINK ABOUT IT

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:29 pm

MidniteEffort wrote:http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-conley-3-m12-draft-1/

now here's a guy who's doing it a little bit better...

Vengeful Pharoah + Merfolk Looter

THINK ABOUT IT

i'm watching more of this Conley guy; he's pretty smart!

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  Slyphidine on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:54 pm

This Conley guy? You know Conley, right? He's the ultimate rogue deckbuilder.
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Re: watching a trainwreck...

Post  MidniteEffort on Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:09 am

Slyphidine wrote:This Conley guy? You know Conley, right? He's the ultimate rogue deckbuilder.

i've heard of him in passing, but never really knew anything about him.

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Re: watching a trainwreck...

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